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Home  >  EMS Topics  >  Safety  >  No CPR nurse spawns outrage, criminal investigation
March 05, 2013

No CPR nurse spawns outrage, criminal investigation

Fire Chief: It's not uncommon to find bystanders unable or unwilling to do CPR, but this was unique

By Gosia Wozniacka and Tracie Cone
The Associated Press

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. — A nurse's refusal to give CPR to a dying 87-year-old woman at a California independent living home despite desperate pleas from a 911 dispatcher has prompted outrage and spawned a criminal investigation.

The harrowing 7-minute, 16-second call also raised concerns that policies at senior living facilities could prevent staff from intervening in medical emergencies. It prompted calls for legislation Monday to prevent a repeat of what happened Feb. 26 at the Glenwood Gardens in Bakersfield.

Lorraine Bayless collapsed in the dining room of the retirement home that offers many levels of care. She lived in the independent living building, which state officials said is like a senior apartment complex and doesn't operate under licensing oversight.

"This is a wakeup call," said Assemblywoman Mariko Yamada, chair of the California Assembly Aging and Long-term Care Committee. "I'm sorry it took a tragedy like this to bring it to our attention."

Yamada cautioned that while it's not yet known whether intervention would have saved the woman's life, "we want to investigate because it has caused a lot of concern and alarm."

Independent living facilities "should not have a policy that says you can stand there and watch somebody die," said Pat McGinnis, founder of California Advocates for Nursing Home Reform, a consumer advocacy group. "How a nurse can do that is beyond comprehension."

In all her years of advocating for the elderly, McGinnis said: "This was so horrifying. I've never seen this happen before."

State officials did not know Monday whether the woman who talked to the 911 dispatcher actually was a nurse, or just identified herself as one during the call. She said one of the home's policies prevented her from doing CPR, according to an audio recording of the call.

"The consensus is if they are a nurse and if they are at work as a nurse, then they should be offering the appropriate medical care," said Russ Heimerich, spokesman for the California Board of Registered Nursing, the agency that licenses health care providers.

The executive director of Glenwood Gardens, Jeffrey Toomer, defended the nurse in a written statement, saying she followed the facility's policy.

"In the event of a health emergency at this independent living community, our practice is to immediately call emergency medical personnel for assistance and to wait with the individual needing attention until such personnel arrives," Toomer said. "That is the protocol we followed."

Toomer offered condolences to the woman's family and said a thorough internal review would be conducted. He told KGET-TV that residents of the facility are informed of the policy and agree to it when they move in. He said the policy does not apply at the adjacent assisted living and skilled nursing facilities.

Multiple calls to the facility and its parent company seeking more information were not returned.

Unlike nursing homes, which provide medical care, independent living facilities generally do not.

"These are like apartments for seniors. You're basically living on your own. They may have some services provided by basic nursing staff, but it's not their responsibility to care for the individual," said Dr. Susan Leonard, a geriatrics expert at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Residents of independent living communities can still take care of themselves, but may need help getting to doctor's appointments. In skilled nursing facilities and nursing homes, many residents require around-the-clock care.

Staff members are "required to perform and provide CPR" unless there's a do-not-resuscitate order, said Greg Crist, a senior vice president at the American Health Care Association.

Bayless did not have such an order on file at the facility, said Battalion Chief Anthony Galagaza of the Bakersfield Fire Department, which was the first on the scene. That's when firefighters immediately began CPR, continuing until she reached the hospital.

Dr. Patricia Harris, who heads the University of Southern California's geriatrics division, said the survival odds are slim among elderly who receive CPR. Even if they survive, they are never the same. She said she would override the home's policy and risk getting fired "rather than watch somebody die in front of me."

During the call, an unidentified woman called from her cellphone, and asked for paramedics to be sent to help the woman. Later, a woman who identified herself as the nurse got on the phone and told dispatcher Tracey Halvorson she was not permitted to do CPR on the woman.

Halvorson urged the nurse to start CPR, warning the consequences could be dire if no one tried to revive the woman, who had been laid out on the floor on her instructions.

"I understand if your boss is telling you, you can't do it," the dispatcher said. "But ... as a human being ... you know, is there anybody that's willing to help this lady and not let her die?"

"Not at this time," the nurse answered.

Halvorson assured the nurse that Glenwood couldn't be sued if anything went wrong in attempts to resuscitate the resident, saying the local emergency medical system "takes the liability for this call."

Later in the call, Halvorson asked, "Is there a gardener? Any staff, anyone who doesn't work for you? Anywhere? Can we flag someone down in the street and get them to help this lady? Can we flag a stranger down? I bet a stranger would help her."

"I understand if your facility is not willing to do that. Give the phone to a passer-by. This woman is not breathing enough. She is going to die if we don't get this started, do you understand?"

The woman had no pulse and wasn't breathing when fire crews reached her, Galagaza said.

Sgt. Jason Matson of the Bakersfield Police Department said its investigation so far had not revealed criminal wrongdoing, but the probe is continuing.

First responders say often it's hard to find someone willing to provide CPR in an emergency.

"It's not uncommon to have someone refuse to provide CPR if they physically can't do it, or they're so upset they just can't function," Kern County Fire Department Deputy Chief Michael Miller said. "What made this one unique was the way the conversation on the phone went. It was just very frustrating to anyone listening to it, like, why wasn't anyone helping this poor woman, since CPR today is much simpler than it was in the past?"

___

Associated PressCopyright 2013 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Cone reported from Sacramento. Associated Press writers Garance Burke in San Francisco and Alicia Chang in Los Angeles contributed to this report.

Comments
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Tiffany Steele Tiffany Steele Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:21:27 PM So So Sad.....you just never know what the outcome could have been.....My crew and I have had saves with people over 80 who return to their regular lives....
Carolyn Marsh Carolyn Marsh Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:35:07 PM Totally unacceptable, how can you have the skill and watch someone with out attempting to help them.
DJ Webb DJ Webb Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:39:30 PM Its crazy.. If u know how to do cpr and that happens then u should do it..
Kathy Hassell Prescott Kathy Hassell Prescott Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:52:37 PM She has such a non caring attitude while talking on the phone. It is sickening.
Ken Deacon Ken Deacon Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:41:33 PM Toomer says they call for assistance, the dispatcher attempted to provide assistance and it was refused repeatedly. I understand not wanting to do respirations but there is absolutely no reason the "nurse" couldn't do compressions...hope she gets her license revoked and criminal negligence charges get thrown at her.......this is absolutely no different than when princess Diana died and people just took pictures and rendered no aid.
Ken Henke Ken Henke Tuesday, March 05, 2013 12:45:05 PM At this point, I'm wondering if the person really is a nurse with the facility.
Robert O'Connor Robert O'Connor Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:29:16 PM "The consensus is if they are a nurse and if they are at work as a nurse, then they should be offering the appropriate medical care," said Russ Heimerich, spokesman for the California Board of Registered Nursing, the agency that licenses health care providers. Staff members are "required to perform and provide CPR". When the unwilling nurse refused to find another willing person in this crowded room(actually lied) to the dispatch it became murder...
Yvette Shaub Yvette Shaub Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:00:09 PM Perhaps this nurse refused to give cpr not because of the facilities policy but because of her own views.
Doc Hawkins Doc Hawkins Tuesday, March 05, 2013 3:38:33 PM Often company policy is created by nonmedical personnel to shield the company from liability. If this was a licensed nurse she had a duty to act that transcended the company policy.
Michael Carpenter Michael Carpenter Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:33:08 PM then she needs to find another profession,,,,drive-thru at any fast food place ought to be good..
Sarah Geloneck Sarah Geloneck Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:24:22 PM I am a nurse at a long term care facility (and former EMT-B). This makes me angry. I've done CPR several times. If I'd been thete I would have told my bosses what Johnny Gage said in "Emergency!" pilot: to hell with the orders and started CPR. Thankfully my facility has no such policy and my ADON (alsi a former EMT) is also outraged by this.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:29:13 AM Sarah, you should be very proud of yourself. You obviously understand and respect the value of life.
Charles Henke Charles Henke Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:37:26 PM 1. Lack of action leading to death by a licensed health provider is gross negligence. 2. A licensed health provider has a duty to act when a patient is in harm's way. 3. I question this provider's moral decision to watch someone's death and refuse to provide lifesaving measures because "the facility won't let me". Sounds like a "Nuremberg defense" to me. 4. The dispatcher should be commented for her professional manor on this call. 5. The "nurse" deserves manslaughter charges and her licence revoked.
Heidi Weston Heidi Weston Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:39:06 PM I completely agree with you. This is a disgrace
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:30:25 PM I disagree that the dispatcher was professional. She became emotionally involved to the point that it just became an argument. She should have asked the caller to find an able adult so that she could given instructions. Much of the time wasted was due to the fact the dispatcher was unable to adapt, and change direction. CPR is a daily event for EMS, but not everyone in the healthcare profession.
CP Shamokin CP Shamokin Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:40:55 PM Serious?? Are you that clueless? I teach 10,000 employees from CEO to janitors in the largest hospital system in our region HEALTHCARE CPR every two years. If they don't take the class they are FIRED. Imagine what happens if someone does no CPR...we would be first to call the police to haul them to jail for murder. Everyone in the "healthcare profession" has NO business working in that environment without knowing CPR. And I include people working in non-patient facilities.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:11:41 PM You should be very proud to provide that many care providers to your community every year. It is a remarkable accomplishment. The world outside of that community is different my friend. If your system was used as a best practice model for Health Care and living facilities these issues would not occur. You mistake my comments as opposition to your point, I am merely stating what is happening in many states. Not what should be happening in all.
Robert C Johnson Robert C Johnson Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:27:00 AM Karen Wesley The dispatcher tried numerous times to have the nurse pass the phone to someone else, the nurse refused each time. I counted at least three times in just that video clip of the call and I know we didn't see the entire transcript. On top of that, I don't think anyone would maintain 100% professionalism if they were in the dispatcher's shoes. I'm fairly certain everyone working in the medical field has an inkling to help others, if not than I know they are still human, and we as a species tend to want to help each other. Witnessing someone NOT providing that aid or making the effort to find someone who could would have made anyone frustrated beyond imagination. This "nurse" was complacent or scared or lazy and should be punished and made an example of for neglect, also this "independent living community" should be shut down.
John Patrick Careccia John Patrick Careccia Saturday, March 09, 2013 11:29:42 PM The 911 dispatcher used every means possible to get the woman to act including pleading with her. She begged the woman to give the phone to someone else. The woman refused. The 911 dispatcher was rightly upset that the woman who stated she was a nurse refused to perform CPR. The dispatcher used every means at her disposal to get the woman to act. The woman should be fired and not allowed to care for anyone else ever. I teach nurses and doctors. They all need to renew CPR to maintain their certification.
John Patrick Careccia John Patrick Careccia Saturday, March 09, 2013 11:33:36 PM Karen Wesley as to your second point, the minute the 911 dispatcher discerns the problem she dispatches the ambulance. The ambulance was not delayed by her conversation. To the contrary she was trying to get someone to act until the ambulance arrived. There were other dispatchers in the room with her and they were incredulous that someone would refuse to hand the phone to someone else to save a life.
Jonathan Barfield Jonathan Barfield Tuesday, March 05, 2013 3:49:08 PM She was 87 years old. Why not just let her pass peacefully.
Linda Heinz Dusky Linda Heinz Dusky Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:27:12 PM I could see you on a death panel! Who are YOU to decide whether or not an 87-year-old person's life has no more value? Lots of people her age, older and even much younger, have survived far worse! At least some effort to resuscitate should have been done unless she had a document stating not to resuscitate!
Michael Carpenter Michael Carpenter Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:31:37 PM well mr barfield,,,,i assume you have led a happy and full life,,if you collapse on the ground,,are we gonna let you pass peacefully ? just asking
Jonathan Barfield Jonathan Barfield Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:27:26 PM Allowing someone to pass isn't saying insinuating they have no value. Have you ever asked someone of that age whether they want to be revived Linda Heinz?
Amy Gilmer Ausburn Amy Gilmer Ausburn Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:47:26 PM That's what a DNR is for Jonathan. She didn't have one meaning she didn't want to "just pass peacefully."
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:05:27 PM The DNR is only for those with a life ending or severe terminal illness, so she wouldn't have had one. However the family statement was that the patient not only understood that there would be no healthcare provided in her senior independent living facility, but she embraced it, stating that she did not want intervention at the time of death. However, this may not be true for others, visitors, workers etc who may experience a sudden cardiac death. Rather than call names or judge those with different opinions on the issues, we all need to research with logic rather than emotion and exam the findings to see if there is something that needs to be changed.
Robert C Johnson Robert C Johnson Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:45:24 AM which you are providing none of Karen Wesley, since you want facts how about the implied consent given when a patient is unconscious? which the elderly patient was. Look up any of the agencies that teat certification of CPR and you'll see how essential it is to perform it immediately. This facility's policies are wrong. Also, Jonathan Barfield's comment was wrong, she was not even going as peacefully as he suggests, she COLLAPSED in a public area, with people all around her and chaos ensuing, I highly doubt anyone would want to go out like that. Also I am not seeing any names being called here.
Corey J Sagstuen Corey J Sagstuen Tuesday, March 05, 2013 3:51:11 PM well done RN's...there is a another one for ya. what's that 4 yrs and a degree and you still cant act for yourself... my truck needs a mop out..grab the broom dear.
Douglas Britton Douglas Britton Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:45:10 AM Hey Corey, I'm here right now in San Fran and what wasn't reported when this initially came out is that the patient had a properly executed DNR in place. The family is now pissed that the dispatcher has made this an issue when it should have been a non-issue.
Ann Harrison-Billiat Ann Harrison-Billiat Wednesday, March 06, 2013 2:00:20 PM Well if that is true, then we should be commending 'the nurse' for having the courage to support her patients wish under extreme pressure rather than vilifying her. It goes against all our training to stand by and 'let death win', but a valid DNR changes everything. A public apology might be in order from those who released the 911 call to the press! How quick we are to judge.
Corey J Sagstuen Corey J Sagstuen Wednesday, March 06, 2013 5:32:22 PM ok so when did this DNR order appear? because since day one that was the word...DNR in place. then the PD and Fire both stated as saying No DNR in place O/A..so whats the deal. If that was the case why did the RN NOT state such an order was in place, and why call EMS for a 9E...simply alert PD or the Med Exam that a expected death has occurred or something...something does not smell right here Doug...
Matt Yarbrough Matt Yarbrough Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:09:56 PM As A Paramedic For alomost 20 years Not only would I lose my license I would be brought up on charges for criminal negligence! Same should be done to her! Company policy be DAMNED!
Linda Heinz Dusky Linda Heinz Dusky Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:21:38 PM I heard the whole 911 call played on the radio. It was maddening that the staff refused to do the CPR! Insane!!!!
Anna Choate Anna Choate Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:23:23 PM My question is, how could you live with that on your conscience? My conscience is worth more than a job! Oh and apparently that company has a living facility up here in Federal Way.
Linda Heinz Dusky Linda Heinz Dusky Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:29:54 PM Some people have seared their consciences so much, they have no sense of right and wrong and cannot distinguish between good and evil.
Bruce Graddon Bruce Graddon Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:49:48 PM What about DNR orders? Nothing has been said about whether or not there were standing orders in regards to resusitation! The patient's wishes have to be followed. I don't think the whole picture is being shown.
Tria Reynolds Tria Reynolds Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:25:53 PM Is forget about the company's license etc, take away her human being card.
Meri B. Kassner Meri B. Kassner Wednesday, March 06, 2013 7:37:35 AM Linda Heinz Dusky, if that is the case they have no business working in health care. I worked as a waitress many years ago (I am a Critical Care EMT) and I assisted a child of one of our customers who began choking on his food. I didn't stand and debate whether I should or not, I just did it. If I hadn't done anything he may have died (or not) but I didn't want that on my conscience. Any health care provider should assist if needed. We are trained to help people. If someone doesn't want to help, then they need to get out of the field of medicine.
Matt Yarbrough Matt Yarbrough Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:36:07 AM No Bruce no DNR in place.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:26:27 PM I have been in EMS 33 years...Have been called to nursing homes frequently for cardiac arrests, I have to say that in all those years, and all those calls, I have never arrived to find staff performing CPR regardless of DNR status. I think if most of you thought about it, you would find the same. Everyone is scrambling now to look at their policies to see if this is true in their facility. Long term care staff, RN, LPN and Care Aides often are not required to maintain CPR certification. Instead of persecuting this nurse, maybe we need to be proactive in our communities to see that this is an isolated incident. But teaching, and public awareness would take work on our part....are you willing to take that on? As I told a friend, I would rather receive quality daily care and treatment than to receive mediocre CPR at 87.
Lanny Harder Lanny Harder Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:28:32 PM omg, my Grandmother had to be DNR to be admitted to her assisted living....people love to make a mtn out of a mole hill. I agree with you absolutely Karen Wesley education is key and we should start with the media!
Kyle David Bates Kyle David Bates Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:29:10 PM Yes...nothing new here . The only difference this time is it got out.
Dana Baumgartner Dana Baumgartner Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:31:07 PM Totally agree with you Karen, many facts untold-
CP Shamokin CP Shamokin Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:47:20 PM No wonder you have such a lousy outlook on this situation. Wisconsin is a joke if your message is correct. In PA, massage therapists can't even practice if they have an expired CPR certificate. Maybe you should start advocating MINIMUM standards in your state, becuase they are not normal in the US. We all have seen the nursing homes refusals to care...but everyone resulted in action post-event. To simply blow this off as "normal" and "who cares she's 87" is callous and unprofessional. I've got my 20+ year patch as a paramedic- seen everything you have seen...and a RN refusing CPR is never normal OR acceptable
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:03:58 PM CP, I never said she wasn't worth it, and I didn't say it was right, I simply said that it is not unusual. I am a patient advocate, especially for the elderly. I am simply stating that it happens, not that it should happen.... If you research many states, CPR is not required by long term care providers. You are fortunate to live in a State that recognizes the importance of this lifesaving skill in all professions, not just medical.
Kit Y Kit Y Wednesday, March 06, 2013 1:19:01 PM I'm not understanding how you can say CPR is not required by long term providers?! It's required to keep your certifications! I have to renew mine every two years so that I can renew my certifications every two years.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Friday, March 08, 2013 5:59:46 AM Kit, that my be in your state, these laws are not universal....
Jason Sturdivan Jason Sturdivan Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:49:25 PM Wow some of you guys are ridiculous. The only disgrace here is that as a society we cant accept that people dont live forever. Do you guys really want to attempt resuscitation on an 87 year old women? For what.. so she can live happily for another couple years with some broken ribs while on a ventilator? You'd think ems providers would know better. Not to mention she agreed to the bo CPR policy when she moved in... but apparently to you all with a god complex thats irrelevant. This nurse did as all you do everyday, she followed protocol. So no she doesn't need to be prosecuted or fired.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:41:32 PM It is clear that many do not understand the legal aspects of negligence and it's elements, murder and it's elements, Good Samaritan, and DNR laws. This is an issue of personal morals or ethics....but those with putting this woman in such bad light are judging by their emotions and not the law.
Robert C Johnson Robert C Johnson Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:33:20 AM So because she is old we shouldn't provide care? Are you serious? If my grandfather falls down some stairs they better treat him! If my grandmother can't breath they better TREAT her! Protocol be damned! The reason we are all upset is because regardless of it being a rule or not it's still WRONG. Your callous and misguided statement here makes me worry about your patients.
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:28:12 AM You have not really read my post if that is how you feel. I never said that. Would I have provided care? Definitely, on duty or off. What I am saying is that people are posting things about Murder, Good Samaritan, DNR and negligence without ever considering what those all mean. Instead of looking at the ethical and moral decision of the caller, they are making emotional statements about law. All life is fragile, and all is valuable, that is my belief and my practice. I think the most valid statement on this blog is the person who simply stated that they couldn't live with themselves had they made the same decision. If it seems that I am calm about this issue, the fact is that I am 61 years old, and have seen the difference of people just getting riled up and doing nothing, and those who realize that the problem is much bigger than just this incident, and are researching the magnitude of this practice nationwide. Do you understand my point? I respect your very valid sense of compassion and empathy, give me the same respect by actually trying to understand what I am saying. It wasn't right, but it wasn't criminal, and unfortunately it happens a lot, but this case got publicity. What about all the others who died because of lack of intervention.
Kit Y Kit Y Wednesday, March 06, 2013 1:24:35 PM So then WOW Jason, by your post, by bother even calling 911?!?!?! Just walk on by and not pay attention. Very callous.
Robert C Johnson Robert C Johnson Thursday, March 07, 2013 4:00:11 AM Karen Wesley I wasn't responding to you I was responding to Jason Sturdivan here
Jane Loynes Dale Jane Loynes Dale Tuesday, March 05, 2013 6:57:00 PM It's negligent ... how could anyone stand by...job or no job and not do all they could to save another human being? How can she live with herself. She took an oath if she is indeed a nurse. She should lose her license regardless of her company's policy. An oath and The Good Samaritan Law are there for these reasons. Shame on her!
Karen Wesley Karen Wesley Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:24:16 PM CP, It was an interesting point about massage therapists required to have CPR and remain current. This is the PA. law. But if you research nursing licensing, RNs, LPNs are not required to have CPR for re-licensing. In fact they cannot use BLS as continuing education. ACLS and PALS are acceptable for CEU but not required. With improved outcomes and ROSC in patients of all ages, it would be great, if CPR was provided by all. I am with you 100%. My point is that unfortunately this is common, and the issue is not this nurse, not this facility, but a global issue that needs to be addressed, and public need to be educated. Proactive rather than reactive is a much better approach to this kind of care issue. It is great to see so much enthusiasm by EMS in regards to the patient advocacy, but we get caught up in our own regulations so much that we often do not realized that there are holes in the practice of other health care providers. I hope you never lose your enthusiasm and empathy. Take care. Karen
Medic Lifeline Medic Lifeline Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:27:30 PM The sad thing just heard on news no charges for the nurse
Jonathan NonYa Jonathan NonYa Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:29:16 PM Did not something similar happen back east when two first responders in a coffee house refused a person aid and didn't them get fired for not acting? I mean why identify your medical training and then not act? I'm at a lost for words here.
Neal Billiat Neal Billiat Tuesday, March 05, 2013 9:34:29 PM A nurse in such a situation must know that without CPR the patients VT or VF will deteriorate to asystole within the few minutes it takes for EMS to arrive. How many of us have successfully resuscitated an asystolic patient? For ACLS drugs we now have Epi or more Epi! and good luck finding a vein. In contrast, simple compressions provide a viable patient. How frustrating this must have been for EMD...Why call 911 in the first place unless you are willing to follow their instructions. Regarding the policy to 'wait for EMS to arrive'. In my experience this refers to falls, when moving the patient prior to clearing the spine' could result in injury to patient or staff. I doubt prospective residents would agree to a policy which basically stipulates "CPR will be deferred until the opportunity to call a funeral home arises.' The irony is that this resident was 'independent' ie managing all activites of daily living (ADL's) without assistance. Had she decided to go out to eat with friends, and collapsed in a public restaurant, there would have been no shortage of bystanders, the dispatcher would have been able to do her job, and the outcome could have been very different. Unfortunately we will never know. To reiterate, IMHO as a CPR instructor:-This is the scenario where early CPR and defibrillation have the best chance of success...a witnessed arrest with agonal breathing, in a facility with trained(presumably)staff and an easily accessed AED/Defibrillator. Only a signed DNR could have kept me from doing my job.
Lisa Damian-Marvin Lisa Damian-Marvin Wednesday, March 06, 2013 6:40:49 AM Couldn't agree more. I saw this on the news the other day and was absolutely outraged. Did you hear the recording of the poor 911 dispatcher, trying desperately to get somebody - anybody - to save that poor woman's life? That facility's policy is really simply inexcusable - I'm hoping they promptly lose all of their residents.
Carolyn Coombes Carolyn Coombes Wednesday, March 06, 2013 1:49:26 AM Ah just as a thought. the Lady was 87 and CPR is no guarantee of survival. At that age I would not appreciate anyone jumping up and down on my chest breaking my ribs
Stephen Ward Stephen Ward Wednesday, March 06, 2013 2:02:02 AM Death with dignity
Steve Carey Steve Carey Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:40:50 AM And what's your take on it? Should she have started it? Even though they weren't supposed to, even as a stranger you would start it...... Surely.
George Gakungu Kirubi George Gakungu Kirubi Wednesday, March 06, 2013 3:12:17 AM not cool, the dispatcher accepted Liability, the need for CPR augments the care to be given by the emergency personell on arrival and enroute to hospital to increase the chances of survival.
Patriotic Voices Patriotic Voices Wednesday, March 06, 2013 6:51:17 AM This nurse needs her license yanked...FAST. http://patrioticvoices.com/2013/nurse-refuses-cpr-sickening/
Kevin Heurtin Kevin Heurtin Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:52:42 AM I agree she should have done something and the dispatch was emotionally involved but lets look at statistics What is the probability of this patient surviving sudden cardiac arrest at her age Yes she should be disciplined but man slaughter is a little extreme.
Ann Harrison-Billiat Ann Harrison-Billiat Wednesday, March 06, 2013 2:26:49 PM Apparently Ms. Bayless had a DNR order. As a Medic(NREMT-P) and an RN, we are duty bound to perform CPR unless we actually see the order. Making sure that it was on hand...even mentioning that to the dispatcher, would have saved this nurse a lot of unwelcome scrutiny. It all sounds a bit contrived. But, if true, we should be commending 'the nurse' for having the courage to support her patients wish under extreme pressure rather than vilifying her. It goes against all our training to stand by and 'let death win', but a valid DNR changes everything. A public apology might be in order from the Fire-Department who released the 911 call to the press! If nothing else this has become a massive HIPAA violation. How quick we are to judge.
Fran Murphy MacFarland Fran Murphy MacFarland Saturday, March 09, 2013 6:31:50 PM I only heard that they do not do CPR at the facility?? Doesn't make any sense. If there was a DNR why didn't she just say so. The dispatcher was begging her to get someone to do CPR, why wouldn't she just say the pt. has a DNR. And wondering why they call 911 at all? Comfort care I guess? I obviously don't know all the details. Very bizarre case to say the least.
Adonis Freiman Adonis Freiman Wednesday, March 06, 2013 3:01:20 PM We don't know for sure if she is a nurse or not. that info is not clear. I'm not saying she was right or wrong in her actions, but I just want to make one point. This woman was 87 years old. What quality of life can an 87 year old have post-resuscitation? You might be doing harm by making her suffer, living in and out of the hospital for the rest of her post-resuscitation life. If you ask me that is not helping her at all. But that depends on her medical history and other factors. I just think at 87, dying is not abnormal. that is a completely moral opinion with no professional consideration. That being said, I am an EMT and have been working as one for three years. I would absolutely have performed CPR on or off work.
Vikki Stefans Vikki Stefans Wednesday, March 06, 2013 5:44:27 PM This really is alarming. An 87 year old in independent living does not get CPR when for all anyone knew she had soemthing reversible and had not requested a DNR. Ironically, I just read a "Piece of My Mind" in JAMA's last issue about a 90+ year old who was evaluated for a knee replacement knew the risks, went ahead with it, and..... did great. It's at http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1656258. We should be able to choose to forgo treatment if we do not think it is worthwhile, but otherwise age is just a number. A person's quality of life should be evaluated by that person if that person can do so. This situation is just wrong. A facility policy and facility staff putting liability over potentially life-saving aid to people who need it are just stunning. The person would have had a better chance out on the street...
Maryam Tan-wm Clarion Maryam Tan-wm Clarion Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:49:53 PM What's the use of you being a "NUrse" and you cannot do anything to help save a life? I hope she was able to sleep after watching someone died without doing anything to help.
Cindy S. LeDonne Cindy S. LeDonne Thursday, March 07, 2013 6:13:22 AM The woman and her family knew the policy of the facility and were fine with it. The family was still fine with the decision after the fact. Although not in writing, would this possibly constitute an understanding of DNR?
Mathieu Creighton-caraway Mathieu Creighton-caraway Thursday, March 07, 2013 9:12:43 AM The part I don't get about that is why call 911? By not allowing CPR, the pt would have an anoxic brain by the time EMS arrived. How is this in the pt best interest? If your policy is not to resuscitated, then you shouldn't call 911.
Cindy S. LeDonne Cindy S. LeDonne Thursday, March 07, 2013 5:39:38 PM I don't believe she is the one that called 911 but I'm not sure. ...and don't we see families doing that all the time - even WITH a DNR? I know I did.
Mathieu Creighton-caraway Mathieu Creighton-caraway Friday, March 08, 2013 3:44:19 PM The woman on the phone identified herself as a nurse (staff member). The 911 operator, after realising that the staff would not intervene and assist with resuscitaive measures, began begging the nurse to find other people who might be able/ willing to perform CPR.... the 911 operator even asked if there was a gardener who might be able to assist... the nurse just kept saying no there wasn't and repeating "company policy". ... plus the nonchalant attitude of the nurse was absolutely disgusting. Everytime I hear the 911 call I can't help but to ask what was the point of calling. ... as did I, but they were usually family members or friends and it's to be expected, but trained medical staff?
Cindy S. LeDonne Cindy S. LeDonne Saturday, March 09, 2013 4:55:07 AM I mostly curious about the possible 'implied consent' part of this situation. I couldn't see myself NOT doing CPR - but that's just me.
John Patrick Careccia John Patrick Careccia Saturday, March 09, 2013 11:24:04 PM I listened to the original 911 call. I can't believe a human being could stand there and deny another human being a chance to live. The nurse and I use that term loosely, actually told the 911 operator that no one at her facility was willing to help the lady who lay dying on the floor, not even the janitor or other staff members. The policy tells them to call 911 if someone collapses and then to stand by until help arrives. It does not say you can't do CPR to help a fellow human being live. God forgive that woman for her callous attitude. I only hope that when the day comes that she needs some help she DOESN'T run into someone like her.

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