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Mo. ambulance firm asks for more time to respond

EMS1.com News

January 10, 2012

Mo. ambulance firm asks for more time to respond

Slower arrival might not hurt if fire trucks with paramedics are already on scene

By Andrea Damewood
The Columbian

CLARK COUNTY, Mo. — Faced with declining Medicare payments and a bad economy, American Medical Response, the private company that provides ambulance service to much of Clark County, is asking for more time to arrive at medical emergencies.

The company is asking for a “stop the clock” agreement to give it two more minutes to get to a call, if another first responder (the Vancouver Fire Department or Clark County Fire & Rescue, for example) arrives on scene first.

But while the move would let a struggling AMR cut costs, several members of the Vancouver City Council said Monday night that they have serious concerns about the risk to patients.

In urban areas, AMR must be on scene within 7 minutes and 59 seconds 90 percent of the time, or faces fines under its contract. The “stop the clock” agreement would give it 9 minutes and 59 seconds to arrive.

Vancouver Fire Chief Joe Molina said that in many cases, his department, which strives for a five-minute arrival window, arrives on scene first. In those cases, his crews start care before passing the patient off to AMR for transportation to a hospital, so giving AMR two more minutes isn’t likely to affect care.

But Councilor Jeanne Harris said she sees it as letting the company off the hook for a contract it is failing to live up to, and worried that the change could mean patients who need immediate hospital care could be left waiting. She said that rather than cut services, AMR should be paid what it takes to make the level of service work.

“If we have to pay more, we pay more so that AMR can be staffed,” Harris said. “We don’t just turn and say, ‘OK, you can’t be there on time, so you don’t have to be there on time.’”

Molina acknowledged that there is a risk that a heart attack patient or car accident victim could be left on scene longer.

But Clark Regional Emergency Services Agency EMS Manager Doug Smith-Lee told the city council that the county’s medical program director has already signed off on the changes, and feels that the risk is manageable.

“It’s a very safe step in the direction to make better use of the resources we have,” Smith-Lee said.

For a decade, ambulance services for both private and government companies has been a losing proposition. AMR’s collection rate on its services was just 43 percent in 2010, down from about 60 percent 10 years before, Molina said.

Medicare now pays far less than it did, and the bad economy means more people are uninsured or unable to pay their bill. For that reason, it’s not practical for the city to provide the services itself — Vancouver would just be strapped with the low payouts, he said.

“Our system is unsustainable,” he told the city council.

Mayor Tim Leavitt said he understands the need for the change.

“What you’re telling us basically is we’re changing our expectations of responsiveness,” he said. “Not in a way that negatively affects victims. … It’s just, we’re holding AMR to unrealistic expectations.”

Councilor Bart Hansen also asked about whether each of the city’s 12 engines and trucks have a paramedic on staff at all times. Molina said that having a paramedic on each unit is a “top priority,” but

that occasionally, not enough paramedics are available to staff each emergency vehicle. Hansen said that risk might be a deal-breaker for him.

A major reworking of how ambulance services for most of Clark County are handled is under way, with a complete revamp set to launch in 2014, the fire chief said. The two-minute time extension provides a window for the members of EMS District 2 — which comprises most of the county, excluding Camas and Washougal, and communities served by North Country EMS — to find a new solution.

The move, if approved by all the agencies within the district, would save AMR up to $250,000 a year, half of which would be refunded back to the local governments.

Molina said he had hoped to bring the agreement to the city council for approval on Jan. 23, but that will be postponed so that another workshop can be held. The proposal will go before the Clark County Board of Commissioners for approval Tuesday.

Republished with permission from The Columbian

Comments
The comments below are member-generated and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of EMS1.com or its staff.
Roger Look Roger Look Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:32:18 PM remember how fast you get there is at the hands of the driver. if he / she feels it would be safer to drive slower than one must. slower driving would save some cost on fuel. :)
Harry Kyle Harry Kyle Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:00:33 PM Typical AMR (Ambulance May Respond) they don't care for patient care just money. I worked for AMR in Ga and there greed cost them a whole county contract, they like the NET calls not 911. Clark County should tell them to either stay with the contract or get out.
Chrys DaKid Chrys DaKid Tue Jan 10 18:12:50 PST 2012 Same thing they tried in Richmond,Va and they got the boot!!
Oj Sheridan Oj Sheridan Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:12:56 PM typical amr
Tom Parrish Tom Parrish Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:21:02 PM Something tells me the response times would have been in the contract, meet em or move on :)
Gary Dubinsky Gary Dubinsky Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:06:44 PM How does adding response time save AMR money? All calls should be responded to as quickly as possible, keeping within the limits of the law and the safety of other vehicles and pedestrians as well as the occupants of the ambulance. Waiting for an ambulance seems like an eternity, and the quicker we can arrive will alleviate alot of stress on the caller and/or patient.
Greg Montgomery Greg Montgomery Tue Jan 10 16:13:51 PST 2012 It save's them money by allowing them to brown out units..just like the FD's do. It's a struggling economy for all services.
Dan White Dan White Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:35:13 PM A response time under10 minutes is still probably 10 minutes faster than any other EMS model in Missouri could deliver in a similarly remote rural county. Sounds to me like AMR is just being honest; providing more accurate data as it becomes available.
Michael D Michael D Tue Jan 10 16:23:50 PST 2012 I worked for a rural ambulance in Missouri, thats how I got my start in EMS, we had two ambulances for the entire county at all times and if we took over 10 minutes getting to the call we were reamed by our director so if our broke rural ambulance can do it for a whole county I think AMR with their infinite resources can manage
Michael D Michael D Tue Jan 10 17:35:03 PST 2012 Medic Lifeline nah, the cops up our way were only giving the tickets to the volunteer firefighters who were going faster then 10
Dan White Dan White Tue Jan 10 20:44:32 PST 2012 Michael D , I have worked both urban and rural EMS in Missouri. My original DM # is 599. Please look on the map where this county is.An under 10 minute honestly reported response time with a National Standard crew and equipment is pretty darn good. Friendly cops won't improve it.
Dawn Poetter Dawn Poetter Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:51:02 PM This is no MO it's Washington.....
Dawn Vickery Dawn Vickery Tue Jan 10 18:09:27 PST 2012 Yes there is a MO it's called Missouri. Know your geography PLEASE!
Polli Goodman Traylor Polli Goodman Traylor Tue Jan 10 19:54:04 PST 2012 She meant this is not MO...this is a WA story...it was just on local news.
Dawn Poetter Dawn Poetter Tue Jan 10 20:25:10 PST 2012 Yah I know that Dawn but as Polli said the article is wrong about the location. I do know my Geography does the people putting the story out? Andrea writes for a newspaper in Vancouver WASHINGTON....
Daryl H. Johnson Jr. Daryl H. Johnson Jr. Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:15:55 PM I think the author has the wrong state posted.... Clark County, MO doesn't have that many fire engines total, let alone for one Dept. The towns and suburbs she is talking about don't exist in this county.
Stephen Malone Stephen Malone Tue Jan 10 19:17:00 PST 2012 one of my friends told me about this on here and i found it....i was kinda wondering when AMR began its service in Clark County Missouri...LOL
Jamie Campbell Jamie Campbell Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:46:24 PM They talk about the patients that cant pay, so cut the response and service for the ones that can?
Paul R Tate Jr Paul R Tate Jr Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:01:00 PM If you can't abide by the terms of the contract...get out of the ambulance business.
Greg Montgomery Greg Montgomery Thu Jan 12 16:57:28 PST 2012 Not fair to say..When cities lack funds we shut down fire stations and hand out pink slips..should we also tell them to get out of the business. Time's are tough.
Roland O'Leary Roland O'Leary Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:56:22 PM It's nice that all of you like the 8 min response time. And it's a great goal. Realistically though, with the current reimbursement model that most services are currently using whether tax base or private, it's not going to be sustainable for most of the country in the not so distant future. As for 10 min vs 8 min response, consider yourselves lucky you don't live in Frontier America where you can set at the ambulance station for up to 15 minutes waiting on staffing to get there. We have parts of our county that can take 30 minutes lpus to reach after we go enroute. So a 10 min response would be a sizeable improvement over an occasional 30-45 min. window. But that's what you have when you live in one of the three poorest counties (we go back and forth from month to month) in the state.
Kuo Downing-Reese Kuo Downing-Reese Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:30:32 PM As a former AMR Operations Supervisor & someone with a degree in EMS management, I can say that it's not as easy as most of you think. There is a lot to deal with when considering SMS (system status management) & UHU (unit hour utilization). As a paramedic I believe in quality patient care & I know AMR does as well. Comparing private ambulance to government EMS (fire) is unfair. Fire dept. run on tax dollars mainly, private on their ability to be reimbursed. Medicare & Medicaid keep reducing their reimbursement rates & make it harder to collect. There is a lot that needs to be done in EMS as a whole. This is just one example of the poor system the US has, not about AMR failing as a provider.
Amy Corcoran Amy Corcoran Friday, January 13, 2012 9:18:27 PM Is the ability to brown out units really why they want to increase the accepted response times? The article doesn't explain how this saves money. From reading it looks like they may save money by paying less fines.

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